All,
I would like to start off by saying that I am MOST grateful for the Untangle forums and those like DMorris, Sky-Night, WebFooL, JCoffin and many others who freely contribute of their time & expertise (for free). I have truly benefited from them. I think I have also made my own small contribution in helping other users, though nowhere to the extent of the above mentioned people and many others.
Additionally, my company is an Untangle partner with currently around 16 boxes having active subscriptions, others without subscriptions, and still others that are in the pipeline. I know that is small change in the big picture of Untangle revenues (although we do have some 100+ endpoint subscriptions in there).
Anyway, I am concerned that there is a common tone (not exercised by everyone) in many forum threads of demonstrating condescending superiority of knowledge. That may not be the most precise way to put it, but it is something along those lines. Even in the past week I have been watching threads (not my own) and seeing these kind of comments that insult other users, or belittle their knowledge, or simply call them crazy.
I think the reality is that these comments are pretty much all made in jest and with some playful banter. But I see people sometimes not appreciating such tone in the comments. I am all for fun, charisma and personality in the forums. But when it has to come in the form of what feels to some people as folks playing king of the castle or some elementary/primary game of superiority, it is probably better to withhold such comments. Especially the ones that make assumptions and assertions about the character and mental capacity of other people in the forums.
With that said, I am not trying to nit pick, or be overly sensitive, etc. My primary concern is that you are going to lose users and partners & prospective partners (very unlikely that I would be one of them anytime soon, as I'm happy with Untangle). I have been in a lot of forums over the years from all sorts of Open Source & commercial software. Generally the Open Source forums & mailing lists are less tolerant of inexperienced users, yet still generally helpful. Then the commercial forums are typically just positive & helpful (except in cases where there seem to be no users listening on the other end to reply to your thread).
So when compared to other open source projects, I would say that the tone of the untangle forums isn't out of the realm of normal at all, and in fact probably on the more mellow side when compared with some I've seen.
But in the commercial world, I think that these forums could use a small (not major) social face-lift from some folks. Although maybe 90-95% of the time are simply positive and helpful, 5-10% seem to have comments of users jumping to conclusions, calling people crazy (or other things that convey similar results), or just have a tone that feels like the forum poster has to come away with the acceptance that some of the people in the forum do such a job to assert their own superior position, that the forum poster comes away feeling inferior in a somewhat negative way. I think that 1 out of 10 threads is a significant ratio (not that I've counted, I'm just guessing based on what I see).
I have spoken with other UT partners who are MSPs like me and have been considering switching from UT to other platforms. They use the forums. I don't think the stones (albeit small stones) flying in the forums would inspire people on the fence to stay.
I could name several other vendors I participate with in mailing lists, forums or LinkedIn groups where the tone feels pretty much always positive and collaborative. People ask questions coming away feeling inspired & encouraged by the ensuing discussions, and without having to swallow a piece of someone else's superiority in the process (i.e. people encouraging, lifting others up and helping. Period. No ulterior agenda of asserting superiority in the process).
Now with that said, I want to again say THANK YOU to you many folks who are constantly contributing the forums and helping UT users including myself. You help make UT a better place. But as a tip, you might consider the tone of your helpful posts, such as to ask yourself how it might be viewed by a partner who is teetering on the fence, or a newcomer who is taking their first glance at UT. Yes you are helping. But could you help even more effectively if you left out some of the adjectives along the way? :-)
I think the reality is that many of us are passionate about UT and want to see it continue to grow. I would say let's just keep up the forum activity, etc., but with some subtle adjustments.
I think the net result will be some degree of greater collaboration, interest and appreciation by those in the UT community. Then with our synergy I would expect UT as a whole will continue to be more successful & make more money.
Lastly, if you don't think this applies to you, then please ignore. If you do think this applies to you, but really don't think you can refrain from the adjectives focused on the users, then please just continue posting. I'd rather see the forums continue having your contributions then not. I just think UT would benefit even more with a slight adjustment in the tone of many of the threads.
Oh one last point. I have absolutely no authority to make a request like this in the forums of a company that I have zero say-so in. :-)
Thank you for reading. And again thanks for all of your help.
Sincerely,
-
Doug Mortensen
Impala Networks
I would like to start off by saying that I am MOST grateful for the Untangle forums and those like DMorris, Sky-Night, WebFooL, JCoffin and many others who freely contribute of their time & expertise (for free). I have truly benefited from them. I think I have also made my own small contribution in helping other users, though nowhere to the extent of the above mentioned people and many others.
Additionally, my company is an Untangle partner with currently around 16 boxes having active subscriptions, others without subscriptions, and still others that are in the pipeline. I know that is small change in the big picture of Untangle revenues (although we do have some 100+ endpoint subscriptions in there).
Anyway, I am concerned that there is a common tone (not exercised by everyone) in many forum threads of demonstrating condescending superiority of knowledge. That may not be the most precise way to put it, but it is something along those lines. Even in the past week I have been watching threads (not my own) and seeing these kind of comments that insult other users, or belittle their knowledge, or simply call them crazy.
I think the reality is that these comments are pretty much all made in jest and with some playful banter. But I see people sometimes not appreciating such tone in the comments. I am all for fun, charisma and personality in the forums. But when it has to come in the form of what feels to some people as folks playing king of the castle or some elementary/primary game of superiority, it is probably better to withhold such comments. Especially the ones that make assumptions and assertions about the character and mental capacity of other people in the forums.
With that said, I am not trying to nit pick, or be overly sensitive, etc. My primary concern is that you are going to lose users and partners & prospective partners (very unlikely that I would be one of them anytime soon, as I'm happy with Untangle). I have been in a lot of forums over the years from all sorts of Open Source & commercial software. Generally the Open Source forums & mailing lists are less tolerant of inexperienced users, yet still generally helpful. Then the commercial forums are typically just positive & helpful (except in cases where there seem to be no users listening on the other end to reply to your thread).
So when compared to other open source projects, I would say that the tone of the untangle forums isn't out of the realm of normal at all, and in fact probably on the more mellow side when compared with some I've seen.
But in the commercial world, I think that these forums could use a small (not major) social face-lift from some folks. Although maybe 90-95% of the time are simply positive and helpful, 5-10% seem to have comments of users jumping to conclusions, calling people crazy (or other things that convey similar results), or just have a tone that feels like the forum poster has to come away with the acceptance that some of the people in the forum do such a job to assert their own superior position, that the forum poster comes away feeling inferior in a somewhat negative way. I think that 1 out of 10 threads is a significant ratio (not that I've counted, I'm just guessing based on what I see).
I have spoken with other UT partners who are MSPs like me and have been considering switching from UT to other platforms. They use the forums. I don't think the stones (albeit small stones) flying in the forums would inspire people on the fence to stay.
I could name several other vendors I participate with in mailing lists, forums or LinkedIn groups where the tone feels pretty much always positive and collaborative. People ask questions coming away feeling inspired & encouraged by the ensuing discussions, and without having to swallow a piece of someone else's superiority in the process (i.e. people encouraging, lifting others up and helping. Period. No ulterior agenda of asserting superiority in the process).
Now with that said, I want to again say THANK YOU to you many folks who are constantly contributing the forums and helping UT users including myself. You help make UT a better place. But as a tip, you might consider the tone of your helpful posts, such as to ask yourself how it might be viewed by a partner who is teetering on the fence, or a newcomer who is taking their first glance at UT. Yes you are helping. But could you help even more effectively if you left out some of the adjectives along the way? :-)
I think the reality is that many of us are passionate about UT and want to see it continue to grow. I would say let's just keep up the forum activity, etc., but with some subtle adjustments.
I think the net result will be some degree of greater collaboration, interest and appreciation by those in the UT community. Then with our synergy I would expect UT as a whole will continue to be more successful & make more money.
Lastly, if you don't think this applies to you, then please ignore. If you do think this applies to you, but really don't think you can refrain from the adjectives focused on the users, then please just continue posting. I'd rather see the forums continue having your contributions then not. I just think UT would benefit even more with a slight adjustment in the tone of many of the threads.
Oh one last point. I have absolutely no authority to make a request like this in the forums of a company that I have zero say-so in. :-)
Thank you for reading. And again thanks for all of your help.
Sincerely,
-
Doug Mortensen
Impala Networks